Preventing Back Surgery

[AspenUSMC]

Hey there, All

I'm recovering from a herneated disk in my lumbar spine, and my physical therapist has been stressing core strengthening and (eventually) pilates work to get me strong enough to avoid surgery.

I'm very encouraged by the language used to describe the FitPrime workouts, and I'm hoping that very soon I'll be able to use some of them.

Has anyone had a herneated disk and gone without surgery? What kind of exercise did you ease back into after therapy?

I'll be given the go-ahead for vigorous no-impact workouts next month, and I want to be ready! I'm so tired of being a lump!

[Tarheels]

Hi, Aspen, I don't have any experience with back problems, but I just wanted to send you healing vibes.

[mec]

HI Aspen, I have a herniated disc in my neck. I got it in January 2004 and have not had surgery. I had physical therapy for 6 weeks and then was given the ok by my orthopedist and physical therapist to go back to my regular workouts--firm/fitprime and tae kwon doe. The only instructions I got from the physical therapist were to continue with the shoulder and neck stretches she taught me. I was very nervous at first, and went slow on the weights, but I haven't had any problems.

Good luck on your recovery!

[hope2bfit]

Hi Aspen. I've had 3 back surgeries in a 2 year period. I struggled with herniated lumbar disks (L4 & L5) for 3 years before I had to have surgery. During that time, I tried everything from PT to injections etc. Nothing seemed to work for long. I would get what my neurosurgeon referred to as flareups caused by everyday movement. I still get them every now and then. They are so bad that you can't do anything. The first surgery I had was on L4. It had got so big that it completely wrapped around the nerve root and ruptured. I cannot put into words the pain I felt. :eek: My doc told me after I was back in my room that he couldn't believe how big it had gotten. He had to cut the disk and then pry the nerves off before he could continue with the surgery. Needless to say, I have numbness, weakness and some pain in my left leg to this day because of it. To make matters worse, the same disk (L4) ruptured again 10 weeks after I had my first surgery. I don't know why. I started to have some severe pain but I thought I was having a bad day. I didn't think anything unusual given I had recently had surgery. Well on my first day back to work (I was put on light duty in the office because I couldn't physically do my regular job) I was in the locker room at break time, I stood up and had the take my breath away kind of pain that I had only felt once before but will never forget. :eek: I fell to the floor. I started to lose feeling from below my waist and the whole left leg and foot. I'm starting to freak out as I was only 29 at the time. I had to be taken to the hospital by rescue squad. I couldn't sit, stand, crawl or walk. I tried to stand up with assistance (I'm hard headed) but the pain was so intense that I passed out. I was admitted and had my second surgery on L4 a few days later. So that is 2 surgeries on L4 in a 10 -11 week period. I had another surgery on L5 a year later. I was at work again. I sat down in the cafeteria and ruptured a disk. I haven't had any fusions. I'm hoping to have a disk replacement but I don't think I meet the qualifications for it as of yet. Because it is recently approved by the FDA, only certain cases are allowed. It might be available for me down the road. I hope. I have degenerative disk disease really bad in the lumbar area, spinal stenosis in L4 & L5 and nerve root pain, weakness from the ruptures and surgery as well as arthritis. I'm on oxycontin and percocet for chronic pain as well as a tens unit. I do pilates everyday. I have the machine as I like the support it gives me. I ordered all 12 workouts but I have to go by how I'm feeling. Alot of times, my pain and weakness/numbness will come on hours after my activity but by then it's too late. The pain meds help will any pain I may have at the time of the activity. My advice is to be careful. The statistic is if you have 1 back surgery , you are more likely that you will have another. However, IMO, it depends upon your condition. If you have chronic pain weakness etc that isn't getting better and you can't function, I'd have the surgery. (I have no choice with all of mine) Keep in mind, any surgery is a gamble. Besides the risks involved in the surgery itself, you may not be any better off afterwards. I am better off because I can move however I am left wth chronic pain, numbness and weakness in my left leg and foot and chronic back pain. I believe alot of my problems today is because my doc waited so long to intervene. My insurance also required a 6 weeks wait ( for the 3rd surgery) even though I knew it was ruptured and I had had 2 prior surgeries. When a disk ruptures, it can leave residual nerve damage. By all means, listen to your docs but if given the option of treatment, research it and figure out what is best for you. Your the one that has to live with it. Good luck!

[Donell]

Hi Donna and Aspen,

Donna,

So sorry to hear all the pain you have been thru; you left me a message,
I never did have the surgery. I didn't bail out; I took my daughter to dr for
ear probs and came home with the flu. One can't have surgery, if you have
had the flu 3 days prior to surgery. OR Nurse says it can stay in your system
for 2wks and i was congested. I have an herniated disc, but the gel/fluid
is gone between L4-L5...they want to take my L5 out and replace it with a
fake one....S1 is messed up...total 8hr surgery, few other glitches.

I have been in a lot of pain, sciatica down both legs....did the chiropractic route, helped but didn't solve the problem. Have tried pilates, stability ball,....tons of motrin. Navy didn't offer me anything stronger.....:confused:

Apsen, as Donna said, it is an individual situation...I have had pain for almost
20yrs. It all started for me..at 23 when i was at work...moved a chair
and got stuck....half way coming up. (think of sticking your butt out real
far...like Carol Burnett playing Mrs. Whowiggins.....i know i'm not spelling it
right.
Do all you can to avoid surgery, but sometimes you can't....I am at the can't
anymore situation. Dr told me...if i don't have it eventually; i will lose all
sensation in my groin area. Sometimes when i walk...i feel like my hip is
going to go out. Pain varies...all according to what i do or don't do.

MRI is key to finding out the true picture of what is going on.

Drinking water helps...keeps joints lubricated and more range of flexibility
helps...less pain, listening to your body, do what you can and be respectful
if you can't, motrin is my best friend. Doing the wheel in yoga on the stability ball gave me a lot of relief/pain wise. Avoid high impact.....and
losing weight helps..less weight on your spine!

Take Care,
~Donell

[NeonJungle]

Hi, Amy!!! Good to see you over here, and best of luck to you! My mom had a herniated disc in her neck, and by taking care of herself, it resolved and she didn't ahve to have surgery.

[AspenUSMC]

Donna,

Oh have MERCY!

Mine situation is isolated to the L5-S1. It is a 7mm bulge. I have not ruptured. I, too, have numbness from hip to toe in the right leg and foot.

The pain, on the day I finally herneated out of shape, was JUST like what you described. I couldn't do anything but lie flat on my back. The trip from the car to the ER was so excruciating. I have never experienced anything that painful (childbirth never even came CLOSE to that pain).

But...I am almost pain-free right now. My physical therapist is going to allow me to begin pilates next month if I continue to improve. I see a neurologist (sp?) this next week to consult. If he give the go-ahead, I will continue with PT rather than further investigation on surgery.

[hope2bfit]

I think you'll really enjoy pilates. Concentrate on the breathing and you'll notice a difference. I don't have any children so I can't compare the pain to that of childbirth. At least with pregnancy, you know what you're getting into and what a blessing it is in the end.... I'm working out again with the firm classics and am eagerly awaiting the new BBH productions as everyone else is. It was a long time before I could do anything and actually my doc hasn't officially released me. I'm doing it on my own based on how I feel. My back is getting stronger as well as my core. It has been a tremendous help with some pain relief. I'm actually trying to get to the point where I don't need pain meds. I haven't brought it up with my docs because they tell me to not even try to get off the meds as my condition will get worse as I get older. I refuse to give up at the age of 35. I tried water aerobics and I loved it. It felt great on my back but it made my leg pain worse afterwards due to the constant resistance so I had to give that up for now. If you're like me, you might have some bad days every now and then. Try not to let it get you down. Good luck with your recovery. :)

[jeanniem]

I have 2 bulging discs I got from heavy weight training 12 years ago. I had pain from my hip to my toes in the right leg. I do FP's, Firm, and TLPs which all help a ton - so does yoga and pilates. The things that helped me the most was definitely strengthing my core. Back when it happened I had to take about 2 months off and start back slowly. It occasionally still bothers me, but not nearly as much as it did when it happened.

I hope you're feeling better!!!!!!!

[kepi]

Donna, your surgery history is a lot like mine. I've had three lower back surgeries at the L4-5 level in a three year period. Mine was due to two car accidents within a year of each. I would have been after my first surgery, but the second car accident reruptured the disc. Both accidents were identical, three cars involved and I was hit from behind.

The second surgery was a failed surgery. I was bedridden for a year before going back to my first surgeon. After having an MRI done, he confirmed that I needed another surgery asap. This one was a fusion and I've been doing pretty darn good for the most part.

I would definitely go with the PT. I did this for almost 9 months. Although I did need surgery in the long run, I have never doubted my decision.

I wish you the best of luck.

[NeonJungle]

Amy, how's it going now? Have you been able to do Pilates? I wonder if you could do the Lottes too?

[laurengmt]

i had L5-S1 microdiscectomy summer of 2002 after undergoing chiropractic, pt, injections, traction, and more pain than i could stand anymore. the surgeon actually apologized to me afterwards saying he didn't see how much of the disc was actually out. anyway, about a year ago that old familiar groin type pain started up again and i thought oh no here we go again. i went to a different chiropractor who had a lumbar distraction machine with ultrasound. that thing was amazing! way better than traction. after a couple of treatments i was good as new. if you can find a place that has this, please give it a shot to see if it could suck that old disc back in place. it's certainly worth a try. good luck!:)

[AspenUSMC]

Sorry it took me so long to see this. We weren't online much this weekend.

I have a consult on Thursday...so I should know more soon. For now, physical therapy has really done wonders. I have some abs again! *grin*

Starting this week, I'm cleared to begin doing some mild pilates work at home in addition to my therapy appointments. I'll let you know how it goes.

*fingers crossed*

[Tamela]

Aspen

Hi there! Such a loving picture!
I am a certified pilates and yoga instructor in S.C. My advice would be to search out a certified pilates instructor in your area. You will need a live instructor to keep an eye on your form! Look for an instructor with a therapuetic approach. I would see them atleast 2 times a week. But, be careful not to rush the healing and strengthening process. Yoga and Pilates go hand in hand with the healing and the strengthening inside/out. Keep in mind to be patient because everyone is different and you need to look at the whole picture. (Alignment etc.) Once you retrain your body you will have a mind- body connection. (Simply making you more aware of how you move your body every minute of everyday. )
Also remember that what we put into our bodies also affects the healing processes.

I love the Martha Graham quote
Tamela Hastie

[NeonJungle]

Crossing my fingers for you, Amy! :)

Tamela, great advice, as always -- thank you!

[AspenUSMC]

Thanks, Everyone...and hi, Tamela! You and I have been working out together for years. You just didn't know. *wink*

My physical therapist's husband is a PE teacher, coach, and CERTIFIED Pilates Instructor!!! Yea for me!

He's a licensed therapist, but he went the education route later. Anyway, he is going to be helping his wife out a few days per week...and I get to see him for several sessions (and it's covered under INSURANCE, y'all) to get some proper form going.

I'm so happy.

------------
P.S. I have a title! I have a title! Harper...fess up. Did you do that for me? *grin*

[Tamela]

That is super good news for you - LEARN LEARN LEARN!!

Have a great day!
Tamela

[AspenUSMC]

Well...I have a grrr today.

My MRI was taken at the Naval Hospital here on base. The place I have to go to consult with my neurosurgeon (the guy who'll do my disk-ectomy if I need one) is about 1.5 hours south of here on yet another military base.

The surgeon's office called to confirm my appointment yesterday. I waited 6 (count 'em 1,2,3,4,5,6) WEEKS to get this appointment after my PCP called the consult in. They told me that my job was to get copies of my records to take with me. I called and made sure I had everything they'd need and I drove down to the hospital first thing this morning.

Well.

I get my medical record just fine, but the MRI people got snotty with me saying, "We have to have 24 hours." I thought, "to make a copy? you're all sitting here and I'm the only person in the office. Why can't you copy it for me right now?"

That's what I thought. It's not what I said. *grin*

So...I had to cancel my surgery appointment and pray for a really quick reschedule because the MRI people couldn't get my MRI copy to me in time for my consult.

Here're my issues:

1.) WHY didn't they tell me 6 weeks ago that I'd need to take copies down there? I assumed they sent this info down with the request for consult. Heck! Tell me a week ago so I'd have time. Don't call me less than 48 hours before the appt. that I've waited over a month for and drop this info. on me without enough time to complete the request.

2.) How can three women with NO ONE else to work with at the time look me straight in the eye and tell me it'll take 24 hours to copy an MRI picture? It didn't take that long to get the original! I had the original in my hand less than 10 minutes after I came out of the tube!

3.) It's my back. It's pictures of MY spine and my poor little herniated L5-S1. Give me the FREAKING original so I can consult with my surgeon. C'mon! Practice medicine here, PEOPLE!

Thank you. I am now finished venting...and I feel cleansed.

--------------

Oh! And to Tamela, thanks for the compliment on the picture. I love it, too! It was taken by my cousin-in-law last October on the beach near our home.

Here's the whole picture. I'm so proud of it.

http://www.geocities.com/aspen74/vday3.jpg

[laurengmt]

oh aspen, i am so sorry for what you were made to go through. i work as an independent medical transcriptionist and daily i am amazed at some of the ways some patients are treated. when i had my back problem, it got so bad i was hobbling around with a cane and in constant agony for SIX MONTHS. one of my clients is a pain clinic (!) and i had to BEG for an MRI to find out what was going on. i had that blind faith that SURELY they would take care of me and never let it get as bad as it did. all i can say is my eyes are PERMANENTLY OPEN now. i really hope you can find another facility that can take of this whole thing for you on an expedited basis. please keep us updated, and good luck.:o

[kepi]

Aspen, I love your family picture. :) Is your hubby stationed at Camp Pendleton? My dad was stationed there for most of his military career.

If you have surgery, will you be having it in San Diego?

[kristenbee]

Aspen,


I'm sorry for what you're going through. My husband had a microdiscectomy 2.5 weeks ago at L4-5, and 4 years ago had a fusion at C6-7. So I understand what you're going through, a little - but I digress.

I'm absolutely APPALLED that you weren't given your MRI on the spot for your appointment. Perhaps I'm wrong, but I don't think they make copies - at least they haven't in our experience. They're on film like an x-ray. We've always been given the original, and then had to return it after consults/surgeries/whatever. The fact that nobody could spare the time to pull your MRI is atrocious, in my book.

Something to think about though - my DH's most recent neurosurgeon has asked him to give up running and any high impact cardio, and to never again do standing lower body work with load. Now, granted, he has poor discs and has ruptured 2 before age 40, but if your MRI shows signs of degeneration, it is worth considering. Impact and load will definitely hasten any disc degeneration. My DH's neurosurgeon told him flat out he would most likely need a fusion at L4-5 down the road, but that he could prolong the period in between the microdiscectomy and the fusion by adhering to these rules. He is an avid runner and is so blue about giving up running - but I've bought him a bike and am getting him a membership to a local pool, when the time comes and he is ready again.

Best of luck to you with your recovery.

[hope2bfit]

I'm sorry Aspen. I know what you're going through. When I needed to have my 3rd surgery (in a 2 year period), my insurance company required a six week wait to have an MRI even though I had already had the 2 surgeries and was experiencing the same symptoms (muscle weakness and numbness from the waist down to foot on left side along with extreme pain, making it impossible to move). I believe my being forced to wait, is why I have some of the problems I have today. My left leg will never be right again. I have done PT, injections, steroids ect. I'm now using a tens unit and I'm on oxycontin for the constant pain. You're not alone. If you ever need to vent, PM me. Take care of yourself Okay? :)

[Tamela]

Aspen

Do rush - tread lightly. All things in good time.
Again such a beautiful picture - it says LOVE
Tamela

[jeanniem]

2.) How can three women with NO ONE else to work with at the time look me straight in the eye and tell me it'll take 24 hours to copy an MRI picture? It didn't take that long to get the original! I had the original in my hand less than 10 minutes after I came out of the tube!

3.) It's my back. It's pictures of MY spine and my poor little herniated L5-S1. Give me the FREAKING original so I can consult with my surgeon. C'mon! Practice medicine here, PEOPLE!

Thank you. I am now finished venting...and I feel cleansed.



Welcome to the wonderful world of military medicine. Civilians try to stonewall all the time. They get paid no matter what and a great number of them get some sort of kick out of jacking with your day. Sometimes, I can't wait to be a civilian again!